Jaguar XJ Supersport Crashes At Nürburgring Nordschleife

"PRBot II" (prbot2)
08/16/2013 at 10:13 • Filed to: car crashes

DISCUSSION (83)

LTA > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:44

Where did ABS go, was it busy hunting bunnies?

Brutal Calves > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:45

That must have shaken the passengers quite a bit..

I expected the car to have serious (visible) damage but it doesn't. Being a Ring Taxi it is very likely the car has a rollcage and bucket seats/harnesses. It would be interesting to see how the chassis was affected.

TheEndean'sList > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:46

So after the driver crashed, the Jaaaaaag proceeded to rub back and forth on the guard rail there?

Meh, guess it makes sense. Big cats always have to scratch themselves from time to time by rubbing up on things in the wild.

Ingaz > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:47

8 lives left.

Viperfan1 > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:47

That pussy took a bang rather well.

That's all I got..

ZeFookus > TheEndean'sList
08/16/2013 at 10:49

Weirdest car crash I've ever seen.

Takuro Spirit > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:52

Sick positive camber, brah

WorldRallyBlog > LTA
08/16/2013 at 10:52

But of course it was turned off, because pro driver does not need these devices, they're just getting in the way of pro driving.

RS Hole, I forgot my password for 8 months > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:53

Why didn't you turn?

472CID > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:54

sellsellsellsell

bikertool1 > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:55

Too much speed or bad driver? I don't want to be critical but it looks like this could have been avoidable by getting the rear end to come around. Maybe I've been watching too much Chris Harris. So much understeer!

zMrManz > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:56

Considering he bounced right off a rail, things look pretty good. Took that hit like a champ!

Rickster3rd ¯\_()_/¯ > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:57

Swindon we have a problem

Mers > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 10:59

Maybe Samir was driving.

TUUURRN SAMIR, TURN THE WHEEL

Mikessp > WorldRallyBlog
08/16/2013 at 10:59

Lol. Yah, sure. Don't mind all the FIA GT3 spec cars that run in series all over the world with abs, traction control, etc.

As Randy Pobst once said, "ABS can out brake amy pro, as we don't have four brake pedals or the ability to modulate each hundreds of times per second".

If you think many pro series have banned abs as its not needed, you are very wrong. They banned abs to make the racing more interesting.

The ability to brake each I wheel individually to the edge of adhesion cannot be done with one pedal.

WorldRallyBlog > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 11:01

I'm with you, but hear me out - ever got into above average fast car with a very keen driver, what's the first thing they do? Turn off ESP, traction control, ABS... while making damn sure you saw them turning it off.

WorldRallyBlog > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:05

Interesting how he let go of the brakes upon hitting the kerb - intentional, so the car gets positioned for the best possible angle and minimize the impact, or his foot just got bounced off by the hit?

DIRTEE30 > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:07

The car held up remarkably well, which made the crash boring.

Now, do that with a Chinese-made car.

hobo rubber fire > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 11:08

To be fair, "Amy Pro" is quite good on the brakes.

Forgetful > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:08

Kinja'd!!!

hangus77 > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:11

That was the most elegant crash I have ever seen.

Because Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.

Rockchops > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:12

Loving the remix gif

burnout_pt > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:13

Right front flat, surely.

I'll just wait here 'till someone confirms it with... someone.

-Tom- > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:13

In all seriousness, there doesnt appear to be much damage to the Jag, visually. Replace some panels and rock it. I would be curious to know what and all was damaged.

BJDonnellan > LTA
08/16/2013 at 11:14

because race car?

DMaculate > WorldRallyBlog
08/16/2013 at 11:15

I think that was a purposeful move to attempt to angle the car. On the grass there is almost no control at any speed over 5mph.

JimSlade > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:15

was Antonio Pizzonia driving?

Kinja'd!!!

merged-450547912-my6ab > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:17

In the bottom video on the page, you can see he's on the ragged edge coming through the turn before the crash... So much so that he can't begin his braking soon enough. the result = Hello Wall.

Mikessp > bikertool1
08/16/2013 at 11:20

Too much Chris Harris.

He was in terminal understeer due to an apparent brake fade followed by abs failure.

How do you propose he get the ass of the car to rotate while in a huge push? More gas? Full lift?

Neither is going to save that car in a downhill with the pace he had and the front wheels locked.

All the manufacturers who run taxis at the Ring have professional drivers in their cars and these folks know the Ring. The brakes were already heavily failing as he appears on camera and there was little he could do with the series of turns coming but hope for enough decel to make the turn. Didn't happen.

Glad nobody was hurt.

pandesal > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:20

Another one bites the dust at Fuchsrohre - Adenauer Forst, eh?

HJTravels > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:22

Why on earth would they make a Jag Ring Taxi? I would only go in the BMW Ring Taxi, preferably with Sabine.

i__cam > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:25

That'll buff right out...

i__cam > i__cam
08/16/2013 at 11:26

It's actually interesting to see at first it doesn't LOOK like there's much damage...then you see the door doesn't line up...and the bent wheel...and probably several other unseen things.

-Tom- > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 11:26

The only problem is that there is a HUGE difference between a BOSCH track ABS setup and a normal OEM ABS system. I can tell you for one the ABS in my IS300 is a piece of shit. Not only does it use the normal hall effect sensors at every wheel but also several G-meters to measure deceleration and yaw forces.

Now the system itsself is likely good. The programming on the other hand is absolutely shit. They have the thresholds set so low it isnt even funny. Its actually become a bit of a burden/safety concern to the modified community. You see with those G meters they have predetermined thresholds. If you exceed those thresholds it freaks out and applies ABS regardless of whether the wheels are at or are close to lock up. If you run sticky tires with aggressive pad compounds the ABS will kick in long before you would ever reach the grip limits of the tires thus causing you to take longer to slow down.

You also have scenarios like what is the MOST common for enthusiasts and that is that if you run a firmer spring/dampening rate than stock, any little crack in the road is considered a massive G load to the ABS system. Going 3mph approaching the exit of a parking lot? Hit a small crack/seam in the pavement on that slope? ABS ENGAGE!!!! Nearly roll into traffic....its quite terrifying actually. The car wont let you stop because the shock of a small crack in the pavement freaked it out due to your stiffer springs. Its an absolute joke. Its such a problem they actually had to do a recall on the Prius over it. They get away with it on the IS300 because its an "aftermarket caused" issue not a "we made this shit waaaaaay too sensitive and just softballed it in" issue...

MaWeiTao > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:37

It almost looks like mechanical failure. This isn't like most videos where you see the mistakes coming from a long way off. It all looked good and the guy seemed to be set up pretty well right up to the point when that tire locked up. Keep in mind that we're talking about a Jaguar here, so mechanical failures really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

GoKart_MoZart > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:41

DON'T OPEN THE DOOR-

GreenN_Gold > -Tom-
08/16/2013 at 11:47

Watch the smaller 28 second video, the front wheel is borked.

Dake > WorldRallyBlog
08/16/2013 at 11:48

If the driver took their foot off a little sooner, they may have stopped understeering before going off-road.

WorldRallyBlog > Dake
08/16/2013 at 11:49

Yeah, quite obvious now, but I suppose he got caught up with the lock up, road looks like it's damp on that section... either way, that poor car, losing its dignity in front of all those people. :)

fourvalleys > Mers
08/16/2013 at 11:51

You are going to break the car, Samir!

bikertool1 > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 11:53

Thanks for the explanation. Didn't realize the brakes were failing him but now that makes sense. That's why I asked!

Rocketred > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 11:54

I'm no expert, but he came into that corner totally out of position for the entry. Totally on the inside. He was never going to make the corner. It's like he forgot where he was on the track and was expecting the next turn to go the left.

CrymeLord > RS Hole, I forgot my password for 8 months
08/16/2013 at 11:57

Why didn't you FUCKING turn?!

WEE2FAST > MaWeiTao
08/16/2013 at 11:58

He should have been on the outside (wider) to start the turn. By coming into that turn on the inside part of the track he was going to have a hard time making that corner even with ABS.

WEE2FAST > MaWeiTao
08/16/2013 at 12:03

He should have been much wider on entry to that corner. Even in if ABS was working he would have struggling to get around that corner.

mynameISNOTkid > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 12:07

Concentrate samir! Listen to my calls! Right Samir! Turn the wheel right! Stay on the road Samir please!

blah > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 12:39

He was flying through that last corner. His brake lights were on the whole time. I'm with you on brake failure. Did an impressive job keeping the car as composed as possible going into the wall. A lesser driver would have written the car off. This one should totally be fixable.

LTA > WorldRallyBlog
08/16/2013 at 12:42

Well that's a pro way to hug a wall...

vwtechnician > bikertool1
08/16/2013 at 12:43

It looks like he just braked too late and with all the weight on the nose, braking on a downhill section, it was too late to get the thing turning. It's easy from a computer screen to say he should've let oof the brakes to ease the understeer but if you get that wrong things can get even worse in a hurry. Bottom line I think he just overcooked that corner.

Robb Holland > WorldRallyBlog
08/16/2013 at 12:44

A few issues

1) There is a massive difference between street ABS and Racing ABS. Street ABS does not help you stop quicker. It is there so that a driver can maintain control of the vehicle under lock up conditions. Racing ABS is engineered to help you stop both quickly and without lock up.

2) You can't just "turn off" ABS in a street car like you can traction control. Most ABS braking systems are plumbed on a cross circuit. RF-LR / LF-RR. If you were to just turn off the system many bad things would happen under braking

3) Traction control actually interferes with a good drivers responses to what the car is doing hence the need to turn it off

WorldRallyBlog > LTA
08/16/2013 at 12:48

Very much so.

Pdb > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 12:56

I think the mistake happened in the previous corner (beginning of clip). The curb pushed him out to the right..? He shouldve been at track left for that second corner. Being offline didnt help the brakes maybe? Shitty tarmac? Marbles/dust?

Pdb > MaWeiTao
08/16/2013 at 12:58

He shouldve been track left for that turn. He early apexed big time.

Brockles > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 12:59

It looked to me like he had oversteer at the previous corner and just flat out ran out of room to gather it up which pushed his braking zone fat too deep into the next corner. He only gathered up the left hander before it and retained control at mid corner, which just left him way too fast for the next one. Look at the angle of attack as the car comes into view in the second video. It's coming back from a slide as it gets to the left hand apex.

Whoops. Is Pizzonia driving Jags again?

Pdb > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 13:01

I dont know - he's offline from the previous corner. If it was brake fade, he'd be feeling it for a few corners earlier and adjust accordingly... Either way, shit happens. Its happened to me (although thankfully never into the armco)

efme > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 13:03

that side doesn't look so bad for hitting a guard rail....

Robb Holland > Mikessp
08/16/2013 at 13:05

Few issues with your assumption there. First thats not a downhill section of track that he is on, it is just after Fox Hole uphill going into Adenauer Forest.

Second most good drivers will recognize brake fade immediately (especially drivers at the 'ring) and slow down long before it becomes an issue.

Last, from the way he came into the shot and the line he was on going into Adenauer Forest I believe he carried far too much speed through Fox Hole and clipped the curbing on the left (which is ok if you hit it right but really bad if you hit it wrong) and that put him way off line into Adenauer Forest which meant he had to be hard on the brakes to make the corner. Not so easy to get a big heavy car like the Jag to change direction under heavy braking....

Der Sportwagoner > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 13:09

Cats love walls. It's nature.

Kinja'd!!!

TheHeadFL > Robb Holland
08/16/2013 at 13:24

Just wanted to say I think Robb is exactly right. This is an uphill section and the uphill coming out of Fox Hole is quite steep in fact.

While it is true that the track is overall downhill for the first third or so, it bottoms at Fox Hole and then climbs back up at Adenauer Forst, then is relatively flat, and starts downhill again at Metzgesfeld.

Malforus > WorldRallyBlog
08/16/2013 at 13:32

Yes, and each time I ask about the crash rating and their insurance coverage limits. Though honestly everytime someone has disabled ABS (not ESC or TC I get those) I call them out on it. You only need to be in a serious car accident once to lose your taste for dumb for the sake of dumb.

twinturbobmw > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 13:45

This is why you don't take a stock 4100LB Jag around a racetrack. Leave it for the sports cars. Even the old M5s were too heavy for the ring taxis. I understand they need sedans for more people but why not M3s or even XFRs?

mysticusuk > mynameISNOTkid
08/16/2013 at 14:03

you are braking the car Samir!

Chteelers > Viperfan1
08/16/2013 at 14:04

He jigged when he should have jaaaggged.

Chteelers > mynameISNOTkid
08/16/2013 at 14:05

shutupiknowwhatiamdoing

Crackerjacktype0 > -Tom-
08/16/2013 at 14:18

Well you've modded the car...and you're driving a car on a track which wasn't its intended purpose anyway.

yeah, that guy > -Tom-
08/16/2013 at 15:36

I agree. As accidents go, it looks like some sheet metal is bent but the whole thing looks for the most part pretty good.

AlphaZero > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 15:43

Can anyone explain the reason behind those stupid looping GIFS? I can understand to show the impact of the crash but the stupid re-looping of the impact does not in any way help illustrate any point.

Carwood > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 16:30

Ugh...the car went perfectly parallel to the wall and bounced off..doesn't look like any major panels were yanked..other than some paint and a look at the axels that thing may be good to go...WOW.

lepie > Carwood
08/16/2013 at 17:22

Are you serious?

roninvp > hangus77
08/16/2013 at 19:41

That could have ended up so much worse if they had nosed in! But, maybe he should turn the slidey buttons back on. Right chap!?

Widget_Master > PRBot II
08/16/2013 at 22:57

ABS fail

Forgetful > PRBot II
08/17/2013 at 00:29

Kinja'd!!!

Someone get this guy this shirt!

-Tom- > Crackerjacktype0
08/17/2013 at 00:49

Right I get that...thus why one might disable the ABS....which I was making the argument for why the Jaguar would have had its ABS disabled...

Northwoods-Porschephile > Forgetful
08/17/2013 at 01:05

Where can I find this?!?

Forgetful > Northwoods-Porschephile
08/17/2013 at 01:06

Oh, you don't Blipshift yet? Allow me to apologize to your wallet in advance.

Slave2anMG > -Tom-
08/17/2013 at 09:20

Left front wheel is left sittin' kinda funny...

Northwoods-Porschephile > Forgetful
08/17/2013 at 19:44

I've got one on the way - thank you so much. :)

///M3 Track Car > PRBot II
08/17/2013 at 21:49

I thought he simply took the first turn way too fast and because of that failed to line the car up properly for the second turn. There was no way he could make that turn coming in that fast on the wrong side of the track.

Brake fade couldn't be a factor because I can't see how he would lock the wheels up if he was suffering from such severe brake fade. He was also still on the accelerator until half way between corner 1 and 2.

Seems like driver error to me...

redmouseball > PRBot II
08/18/2013 at 14:04

He was still on the gas past the first turn. learn to drive (and your car).. never keep your wheels locked

Carwood > lepie
08/19/2013 at 17:10

Just caught the top video..Now I see the front wheel straight up nailed in and no longer moving..whoops.

Daniz207RC > PRBot II
10/27/2013 at 13:44

http://bridgetogantry.com/2/index.php/ho…

smrtypants44 > LTA
08/03/2014 at 18:51

That looks like understeer-induced skidding not lack of abs.

Siman > Robb Holland
08/04/2014 at 06:26

Yes and no. Most of thees higher-end cars switch how the ABS handles in "race mode". Also older ABS used to suck hard some only had the ability for front/rear or FR/FL/rear control only. Older pumps also never seemed to work right and activated way too soon or in some cases never activated at all. The ability to turn off ABS in these cars was to initially be able to hoon the car without the car trying to interfere with driver fun.